Curse

Zoolooman · Jun 20, 2005, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Under the current damage model, Ascalon and Knight's armor prevents a set amount of damage no matter where you are hit, regardless of how many pieces are worn.

Currently, this implies that Gladiator's and Plate are the only "good" complete armor sets, and one could make a strong argument that Gladiator's is the best overall because of its energy boost.

As it stands, buying a full set of these "damage reducing" armors is an adventure in aesthetics, nothing more. I think that an entire suit should be much better at absorbing damage than a single piece; say, five times better?

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 01:21 PM // 13:21

I agree. The munchkin approach of using damage reducing boots and gladiator's everywhere (except the stonefist gauntlets) is annoying. Making it 3 reduced on torso, 2 on legs and 1 on feet, hands and head would add to 8 reduction, which is WAY too much (thus the solution of Gladiators etc... of splitting the additive bonus up won't work), so the sensible approach is to apply it only to hits on the covered region - if you have Ascalon leggings and are hit in the legs it reduces damage, if you are hit in the chest it wouldn't. The reduction should be comparable in power to the other effects, which it nearly is (See http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=15 and other posts by Ensign), so really if you put the reduction on each piece it should work fine. It will be best vs low damage opponents, so better vs mobs, and while Ensign helpfully points out the added benefit of the armour with higher AL (a shield user), it should also be noted that anyone delivering weakness to his opponents (a hammer warrior using staggering blow, devastating hammer, or a warrior using enfeeble/enfeebling blood) will also of course derive a greater advantage by applying the constant reduction on a smaller damage source.

Zoolooman · Jun 20, 2005, 01:42 PM // 13:42

If it were based on hits, it might be better to slightly buff the damage reduction from the current 2. Another method might be to reduce the per-piece benefit so that a complete set adds up to a reasonable amount. This would require fractions, however, and rounding down, which would be ugly.

What is the damage reduction of a superior absorption rune? I'm suggesting reduction of similar strength for complete sets of reducing armor; of course, stacking the rune and the armor would be best of all.

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

If it were based on hits, it might be better to slightly buff the damage reduction from the current 2. Another method might be to reduce the per-piece benefit so that a complete set adds up to a reasonable amount. This would require fractions, however, and rounding down, which would be ugly.

What is the damage reduction of a superior absorption rune? I'm suggesting reduction of similar strength for complete sets of reducing armor; of course, stacking the rune and the armor would be best of all.

A superior absorption rune is -3 damage - that would be a bit much I think. The Knight's is -2, and they do stack.

Currently, with a 16 AL shield and a superior absorption rune, Knight's armour is better than Plate for values less that 54 base damage physical, and for about 45 damage vs elemental. It beats Gladiators vs elemental at any damage (since it is gladiator's -2...) and is only as good as gladiators up to 28 damage or so physical. Bumping it to 3 reduction for example would shift these values to up to 80 damage physical and 67 elemental to beat Plate, and 42 damage to beat the physical on gladiators.

I think 3 reduction sounds like too much.

savanus · Jun 20, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I totally agree- as I have posted before gladiator is too good. This means that if I don't want to be beaten up by monsters I must wear gladiator even though I don't like it's look and prefer chainmail infinitley.

codemonkey · Jun 20, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

A superior absorption rune is -3 damage - that would be a bit much I think. The Knight's is -2, and they do stack.

Currently, with a 16 AL shield and a superior absorption rune, Knight's armour is better than Plate for values less that 54 base damage physical, and for about 45 damage vs elemental. It beats Gladiators vs elemental at any damage (since it is gladiator's -2...) and is only as good as gladiators up to 28 damage or so physical. Bumping it to 3 reduction for example would shift these values to up to 80 damage physical and 67 elemental to beat Plate, and 42 damage to beat the physical on gladiators.

I think 3 reduction sounds like too much.

So the question is, if you take 75hp of damage for a superior rune to reduce your damage by -3... does that even make sense?

If you just leave off the rune you can in effect take 25 hits for "free"

(75 / 3 ). Math isn't my favorite subject, but it seems that having 75hp over a 3 damage reduction is better, no?

CodeMonkey

Zoolooman · Jun 20, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

A superior absorption rune is -3 damage - that would be a bit much I think. The Knight's is -2, and they do stack.

Currently, with a 16 AL shield and a superior absorption rune, Knight's armour is better than Plate for values less that 54 base damage physical, and for about 45 damage vs elemental. It beats Gladiators vs elemental at any damage (since it is gladiator's -2...) and is only as good as gladiators up to 28 damage or so physical. Bumping it to 3 reduction for example would shift these values to up to 80 damage physical and 67 elemental to beat Plate, and 42 damage to beat the physical on gladiators.

I think 3 reduction sounds like too much.

Without an increase in reduction, your earlier suggestion--to reduce damage based on the pieces hit--would technically *nerf* Ascalon and Knight's armors. There must be a solution that makes wearing a full suit an advantage without making the individual armor pieces less advantageous than they are right now.

Unless of course, you are only out to reduce munchkinism.

Deathlord · Jun 20, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Actually, abosprtion rune's don't take off hp. Major/superior all just give effect, no -50 or -75 hp. I think the set right now is fine because knowledge is power. It makes you feel good when you can tell a decent player from a begginner when you see a guy in all wyvern armor compared to a guy with gladiators with knights gloves/boots. I think it's fine the way it is.

codemonkey · Jun 20, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathlord

Actually, abosprtion rune's don't take off hp. Major/superior all just give effect, no -50 or -75 hp. I think the set right now is fine because knowledge is power. It makes you feel good when you can tell a decent player from a begginner when you see a guy in all wyvern armor compared to a guy with gladiators with knights gloves/boots. I think it's fine the way it is.

Ah, no penalties for them?? Odd, inconsistent... but at least it removes the catch-22.

CodeMonkey

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathlord

Actually, abosprtion rune's don't take off hp. Major/superior all just give effect, no -50 or -75 hp. I think the set right now is fine because knowledge is power. It makes you feel good when you can tell a decent player from a begginner when you see a guy in all wyvern armor compared to a guy with gladiators with knights gloves/boots. I think it's fine the way it is.

Munchkin :P

Seriously? I don't like the hidden operations and stuff - I like systems to be
a) consistent
b) non-munchkin-able

Most armour with a benefit (extra armour vs physical, more energy, less energy, protection from an element) is limited to the piece with that property - by making ascalon and knight's a separate case they make it inconsistent with other armours - either having it cumulative and weighted 3:2:1:1:1 (like the energy for example) or per piece keeps it consistent with other armours. It also has the side effect of eliminating the munchkin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

Without an increase in reduction, your earlier suggestion--to reduce damage based on the pieces hit--would technically *nerf* Ascalon and Knight's armors. There must be a solution that makes wearing a full suit an advantage without making the individual armor pieces less advantageous than they are right now.

Unless of course, you are only out to reduce munchkinism.

I don't see it as a nerf - the full suit is no less effective than it is now. It only affects those wearing a partial suit - and that is the point - they are gaining a whole body effect from a pair of boots, while no other type of armour extends its effects in this way. It is fixing an inconsistency. The full suit would be an advantage over wearing one piece, which it should be, and it is an adavntage over other armours if the damage coming in is in the right size range - less than about 50 per hit. It shouldn't be an advantage in all situations, or it wouldn't be a choice it'd be the choice, so I am fine with it being less effective vs large hits. Note that in combination with enffeebling blood for exampl, the benefit extends to twice as high - so Ascalon is better than plate at up to 108 damage per physical hit, provided they are weakened to halve the damage. It would be a valid choice for most people.

redsman1 · Jul 10, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

armor stacking from guildwars manual
**Not in the strictest sense of the word. Each piece of armor protects a specific area of the body, so a full set of armor works together to protect your character. The benefit of any footwear only applies to the feet, and that of any chest piece only to the chest area. Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack.**

obviously armor isnt working correctly if one piece absorbs for the whole body. does AN have any plans to fix this? i mean their manual tells us how its supposed to work but they couldnt code it to work right in game, go figure!

crazy diamond · Jul 11, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsman1

obviously armor isnt working correctly if one piece absorbs for the whole body. does AN have any plans to fix this? i mean their manual tells us how its supposed to work but they couldnt code it to work right in game, go figure!

I'm actualy beginning to wonder how much of it is true and how much is simply word of mouth, people repeating what they heard someone else say on how it worked.

I've done a few searches on the forum and I see people mention that its not working as inteded all the time. However I've yet to see any number crunching to prove or disprove this.

If anyone has a link, I'd like to see it, since I'm very curious about it.

Ander Deathblade · Jul 21, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathlord

Actually, abosprtion rune's don't take off hp. Major/superior all just give effect, no -50 or -75 hp. I think the set right now is fine because knowledge is power. It makes you feel good when you can tell a decent player from a begginner when you see a guy in all wyvern armor compared to a guy with gladiators with knights gloves/boots. I think it's fine the way it is.

That doesnt mean a thing. It doesn't say "this guy is better than that guy", it just says "this guy prefers munchkinism over looks". I know all this shit, but I'm not doing that.